Good to read from the Jewish perspective. David Jay, if I may ask, how could you ever have been trapped by the teachings of the JW's with your extensive knowledge about all doctrines and teachings of the Jews?
Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
JoinedPosts by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
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The Pagan Origins of the Memorial Observed by Jehovah’s Witnesses
by David_Jay in“we don’t celebrate holidays because god doesn’t approve of any celebration that is rooted in pagan customs and manmade traditions.” (see here for a similar jw response.).
if you were once an ex-jw like me, you have probably said something like this out in field service to someone who asked the question: why don’t you people celebrate holidays?
as the witnesses' official website states in an faq about not celebrating easter:.
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Job, his loved ones and his servants
by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in1 corinthians 10:13. no temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind.
and god is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.
this verse is in correspondence with 1 cor.10:13 and james 1:13. job will not be tempted beyond what he can bear, and it will not be god tempting him.. then in verse 16, this is being said:.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.1 Cor. 10:13 says that we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear. James 1:13 says the temptation does not come from God.
When reading the book of Job, some questions arise when taking into account the two verses mentioned above.
Job 1:12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”This verse is in correspondence with 1 Cor.10:13 and James 1:13. Job will not be tempted beyond what he can bear, and it will not be God tempting him.
Then in verse 16, this is being said:
16 Another messenger came and said, “The fire of God fell from the heavens and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
If this fire truly came from God, it would violate what is being said in James 1:13. Is the messenger here mistaken?
Also, the servants are being killed here, but were they predestined to die due to Satan’s plan with Job? Does it then count as temptation? Nobody can bear death, does this violate 1 Cor. 10:13?
17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
What is the source behind this mighty wind? Ephesians 2:2 tells us that Satan is the ruler of the power of the air, but does this mean this wind comes from Satan? If so, then they are also being killed because of the plan Satan has for Job.
Job does not suffer beyond what he can bear, from his perspective it is okay. But from the perspective of his servants, his sons and daughters, they died for the plans Satan had with Job. What they encountered, were they tested/was it temptation? If so, were they being tested beyond what they could bear?
20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart.
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.”Was Job here mistaken?
22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
Verse 21 says that God has taken away, and verse 22 says God was not charged with wrongdoing. From Jobs perspective, if God was behind this, what he seems to suggest in verse 21, then was this not a violation of James 1:13?
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JW apologetics websites.
by Steel inlately i have been studying some basic christology and jesus in the old testament and why first christians believed jesus was god in the flesh.
really interesting stuff.
i am not really sure if i fully understand it but i do now realize why pastors go to university and bible school for a number of years and also how their beliefs are not just based on a few verses that can be edited in the nwt.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
Steel
''I do believe Jesus being a physical manifestation of God in the flesh in both the old and new really holds more credibility if the scriptures are sincerely studied.''
I agree very much
Before I came into contact with the witnesses I always believed in the Trinity,
But the witnesses were at that time very convincing, and changed my mind. For a couple of years then, I was convinced that the Trinity was false.
Currently I am taking an extra course on the university taught by a protestant theologian, and he explains it wonderfully, and like you say, if the scriptures are sincerely studied, the trinity becomes more and more clear.
By reading more of the scriptures it becomes more obvious.
For instance when you read Romans 10:9 and Romans 10:13, together with Yoel 2:32. In the Old Testament it referred to God, whereas in the New Testament it refers to Jesus.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus is being tested by the devil and says: Do not put the Lord your God to the test.
All the verses that precede this sentence are about the the temptation of Jesus by the devil. This verse would in my opinion not make sense if Jesus is not a physical manifestation of God.
God is the invisible power that presented himself to us by means of Jesus, who was God manifested in the flesh.
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Todays Daily text is yet another gem of spiritual encouragement
by NikL inwednesday, march 29.
if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness.—gal.
kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
Nice observation.
What are your current beliefs if I may ask?
I currently am inclined to follow the teachings of Protestant Arminianism.
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Proposed Apostate takeover campaign
by zound infictional apostate takeover campaign.
stage #1.. what if in a town that had a particularly large amount of apostates and ex-jw's, over a period of a few months, they started going to a small congregation.
either pretending they were bible studies or just returning jw's, they got good standing in the congregation, priveleges etc.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
Spyvsspy89
have you considered visiting a psychiatrist?
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JW's And Their Education Level
by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu ini was thinking about this.... in my congregation, i was literally the only one with universitary education, out of a cong from around 110 people.... and we're very close to a very big university, which makes it even weirder.. on the other hand... sooo many here with their own business, mostly small cleaning businesses.
cleaning windows, or cleaning somewhere else... painters.... all have jobs that do not require any education level, cos they never had a decent education.. how is the composition of the jw people/congs that you know about?.
how many painters... cleaners... compared to people with jobs that require higher education?.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
I was thinking about this...
in my congregation, I was literally the only one with universitary education, out of a cong from around 110 people...
and we're very close to a very big university, which makes it even weirder.
On the other hand... Sooo many here with their own business, mostly small cleaning businesses. Cleaning windows, or cleaning somewhere else... Painters.... All have jobs that do not require any education level, cos they never had a decent education.
how is the composition of the JW people/congs that you know about?
how many painters... cleaners... compared to people with jobs that require higher education?
And how many people do you know that are being told they better not go to university?
edit: the majority of the pioneers here does not even work, but receives money from the government.
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Are people free to leaving the Witnesses, and shunning.
by ThomasCovenant inis it true, as bro jackson testified to the australian royal commission, that people can leave the religion freely?.
in my own case, yes.
i just stopped going and was never announced as ''no longer one of jw's''.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
I have never been baptised, so I have officially never been a JW, just an unbaptised publisher (or is this also already viewed as being a somewhat full JW?).
Never having been baptised as a JW technically means I cannot leave them since I never officially joined them. However, even without being baptised, I am being shunned now because I do not attend any meetings and do not participate in any activities, like preaching.
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The Truth Brings Not Peace, But A Sword!
by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yldwe_6jsu.
this is a video from a district convention in 2013.. some disturbing things are being said in this talk.. 1.45 ''what does jehovah want from us when our family member is difellowshipped?''.
matthew 10:34,35 is being read.
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yLdwe_6JsU
This is a video from a district convention in 2013.
Some disturbing things are being said in this talk.
1.45 ''What does Jehovah want from us when our family member is difellowshipped?''
Matthew 10:34,35 is being read. Jesus said, ''I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division with a man against his father and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother in law.''
''What does Jehovah want?''
2.30 ''Loyalty, that's what Jehovah wants''
3.20 ''Remember, the wrongdoer changed his relationship with Jehovah and his family.
It was their actions that affected the family, not ours. If they would have remained faithful, the family would still be intact.''Shocking how much blame is put here on the one that leaves. It is disgusting how they talk about this. As if it's their fault that the family shuns them!
4.35 ''Respect the arrangement for discipline. Simply put, respect the decision that resulted in our family member being disfellowshipped. This is the best decision for everybody. Disloyalty to Jehovah's arrangement is not going to work.''
''For example, when someone is disfellowshipped one of the reasons they want to come back into Jehovah's organization is to associate with the brothers and sisters in the congregation and likely to associate with their family.''
''So if we associate with them when they are disfellowshipped, we could actually be taking away from them a motivating factor for wanting to be reinstated.''
So, let them wanting to go back because they miss their family and friends! What a great idea...
It is complete manipulation, the only reason someone would want to go back must be for 'going back to Jehovah'. They are misusing family and friends to make people come back.
''Remain loyal to Jehovah!''
For the ones that are shunning the disfellowshipped ones, the loyal ones, this message is been given to them:
5.40 ''Don't play the blame game. Resist self-blame. We may think that we are at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions.''
''Avoid the ''if only'' games... If only we would have done more in the organization... if only ... if only ... ''
''The disfellowshipped person left Jehovah. They knew the results of their actions.''
''They are the ones that made the wrong choice. Don't blame ourselves.''
This part was so sick. It's not even necessary to comment on this, it is so appaling.
''Do not, never give up!''
8.10 ''We can have mentally the peace of God that excels all thought because we know what we are doing is right.''
Yes, yes, we are right and everybody else is always wrong. We are never to blame, the ones to blame are the ones who leave. Who's fault is it that the family is no longer intact? The fault of the ones who leave the org, not of the ones who remain loyal....
9.00 ''Let's follow Jesus' steps closely.....''
By beginning the talk with Jesus' words and ending with Jesus' words they make it look like as if Jesus would've approved of this. It's disgusting.
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JW.Org claims they have fullfilled Jesus command to preach in all the inhabited earth.Have they really done that ? I dont think so.
by smiddy inapart from the fact that they have mainly followed in the footsteps of christendom before them what virgin territories have they ever gone to that christendom before them has not gone to .
i would think none.. how many lands ,countrys ,are their that they have never made any significant inroads into ?.
we are not talking about token service in any of these countrys in major cities , but a real door to door witness to every individual householder that gets it every few months as in western lands.. some that i can think of : north korea ,mainland china , bangladesh ,india , pakistan , jordan , israel , iran , syria ,burma ( sorry cant think of the new name ).
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
https://www.imb.org/research-maps/
On this page, maps with the progress toward engaging unreached peoples
and with unengaged unreached people groups.
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JW.Org claims they have fullfilled Jesus command to preach in all the inhabited earth.Have they really done that ? I dont think so.
by smiddy inapart from the fact that they have mainly followed in the footsteps of christendom before them what virgin territories have they ever gone to that christendom before them has not gone to .
i would think none.. how many lands ,countrys ,are their that they have never made any significant inroads into ?.
we are not talking about token service in any of these countrys in major cities , but a real door to door witness to every individual householder that gets it every few months as in western lands.. some that i can think of : north korea ,mainland china , bangladesh ,india , pakistan , jordan , israel , iran , syria ,burma ( sorry cant think of the new name ).
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Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
''However even with this list it shows beyond reasonable doubt JW`s have not preached in all the inhabited earth .NO WAY,''
Very true, and I must say nice thread.
I don't know about the witnesses, but I very much like this site: www.imb.org
IMB stands for the International Mission Boards.
This site gives all kind of statistics related to how far the gospel has spread in the world.
Sadly though, not the right gospel of course since they do not preach about 1914 and do not teach obedience to the Governing Body and so on.
Some statistics that I find interesting:
7,2 billion people on the earth
42% of the world are reached ones (people with access to the gospel). This is 3 billion.
Of this 3 billion, 2,3 billion are Christians.
700 million has access to the gospel but does not accept the gospel, because of other beliefs etc.
58% (4.2 billion people) is classified as unreached. This means very littlo to no access to the gospel (maybe to a watchtower though)
These people are 6792 ethnic groups. These groups have few to no churches, a very small part of the gospel in their own language, or no part at all, a lot of persecution etc. Think of the Muslim world.
The number of each of these ethnic groups vary a lot. Some groups are only a few hundred people, whereas others are a few million. To gain access to the gospel, they will need help from outside the community.
https://www.imb.org/people-and-places/
For instance Sub-Saharan Africa
https://www.imb.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/SSAP_FastFacts.pdf
''SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA HAS A GROWING CHRISTIAN POPULATION, BUT IT’S STILL HOME TO NEARLY 1,600 UNREACHED PEOPLE GROUPS IN SPRAWLING CITIES, BARREN DESERTS, RAIN FORESTS''
Or Central Asia:
https://www.imb.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CA_FastFacts.pdf
''98,7% OF CENTRAL ASIAN PEOPLE GROUPS ARE UNREACHED''
''ALL THE PERSIAN AND TURKIC PEOPLE GROUPS WHO CALL CENTRAL ASIA HOME ARE UNREACHED. MOST CENTRAL ASIANS HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY AND ARE UNAWARE THAT THE GOSPEL IS GOOD NEWS.''
Hope this information is helpful.
Of course, the power of the Governing Body is so much stronger than Christendom, cos only they have the power of the holy spirit. But if we take these statistics into account, it seems fair to say that a great majority of the world has not been reached.